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Lambda ratio and voltage in closed loop. http://forum.fordiag.cz/viewtopic.php?t=371 |
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Autor: | vieplis [ 26 říj 2016, 20:13 ] | |||
Předmět příspěvku: | Re: Lambda ratio and voltage in closed loop. | |||
Thank you, Tomin! A couple of extra question regarding (1) relation between KAMRF and KAM adaptations map and (2) operation of clutch "LED". Background information. I have been observing my vehicle with ForDiag for 1 year/ 14 000 km since events of misfire and catalyst converter failure (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=282). One point of concern is low KAMRF at idle and at deceleration. KAMRF at idle is gradually deteriorating, recently reaching as low as 0.88. Thus, problems are coming . After your reply I understand the following. 1st image, my typical KAMRF at idle (closed loop, idle rpm, 0km/h, neutral, actually no clutch): KAMRF 0.90 = LTFT +10%: ECU sees too lean => ECU desires to make richer => ECU commands +10% of fuel in mixing. 2nd image, my typical KAM adaptations map, Idle cell 3 -> Neutral: Green value -10.5%: ECU sees 10,5% too rich => ECU desires to make leaner => ECU commands -10.5% of fuel in mixing Mine have always been green, with various negative values. 1) Question about relation between KAMRF (at closed loop, idle rpm, 0km/h, neutral, no clutch) and "3. Neutral" cell of KAM adaptations map: Shouldn't KAM map cells normally "mirror" KAMRF readings? Shouldn't a typical KAMRF ~0.90 (at closed loop, idle rpm, 0km/h, neutral, no clutch) value show up as red ~+10% in "3. Neutral" cell of KAM adaptations map? 2) While thinking about how does ECU know that vehicle is "Neutral" (to store and calculate information for "3. Neutral" cell in KAM adaptations map), I noticed the following. ForDiag's Clutch Pedal LED (ndsflg PID) is reporting wrong, but only under certain conditions. I am assuming that Clutch Pedal LED in dark green means "no clutch", but bright green - "clutch pedal pressed". By "wrong" I mean that the LED shows "clutch pedal pressed" when it is not. See video (wrong operation of Clutch Pedal LED in first 15 seconds and then from 2:30). (https://youtu.be/n1fFac25_LE) Clutch Pedal LED wrong when: - engine on, neutral, 0 km/h; - engine on, 1st gear, until 8-10 km/h (possibly also when braking and decelerating, neutral, from 10-8km/h until full stop); Clutch Pedal LED OK/perfect when: - engine off, ignition on; - engine on, 1st gear above 8-10 km/h - engine on, any other gear, any other speed. My vehicle has a start button, I have to press clutch in order to start the engine. Some information from ETIS documents pertaining to my vehicle: "CPP (clutch pedal position) switch ... Via the GEM and the CAN databus to the PCM. On vehicles with a Start/Stop button an additional switch is fitted which sends a signal to the PCM when the clutch pedal is fully depressed." Thus, my vehicle's clutch pedal is sending two "Clutch Pressed" signals to ECU. A wild guess - may be ForDiag receives/chooses PID of the 2nd CPP signal (for Start button) which is processed by ECU (and reported to ForDiag) in form which allows to start the engine of a vehicle moving/rolling up to 8-10km/h? ETIS description of the starter operation does not confirm it (but also does not mention vehicle speed as a factor which excludes starter operation). Tomin, do you have any ideas about what's going on? Anything I could cross-check on my vehicle via other PIDs? Thank you in advance for response. P.S. Details of my ECU are attached in the 3rd image, if needed. Příloha:
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Autor: | Tomin [ 28 říj 2016, 16:09 ] |
Předmět příspěvku: | Re: Lambda ratio and voltage in closed loop. |
Hi, about KAMRF: this value have oposite meaning than LAMBSE ! LAMBSE: >1 = leaner mixing, <1= richer mixing KAMRF: >1 = richer mixing Your KAMRF = 0.90 is something like "pulling 10% of fuel out" Some explanation (from other person) is here, for example: http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/ ... ch.726798/ There should NOT be "A/F ratio" in KAMRF PID/display. It could cause confuse. I will fix the text there. Rather there should be "multiplier" or something more clear word. (? who knows what is the best word for it ?) about LED: I will take a look at this. Thanks for the advice. |
Autor: | vieplis [ 29 říj 2016, 22:37 ] |
Předmět příspěvku: | Re: Lambda ratio and voltage in closed loop. |
Hi, thanks for explanations! For some reason, initially (with v.1.25.11) I could access only LAMBSE1 and KAMRF1. Made many recordings with these, and fell into desperation that I cannot interpret them. Therefore thanks for explaining. I see now with v.1.30.01 that I can also access OBD.STFT1 and OBD.LTFT1, a picture of which well explains STFT and LTFT relation to LAMBSE and KAMRF, respectively. As regards the clutch LED, I made an extra test. Rolling downhill with 20 km/h, neutral, no clutch, slowly brake until full stop. The clutch LED lit up (wrong bright gren) at 6 km/h: |
Autor: | Tomin [ 30 říj 2016, 13:56 ] |
Předmět příspěvku: | Re: Lambda ratio and voltage in closed loop. |
Citace: Hi,
Picture is better than 1000 words Full explanation. Thank you.
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